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Mechanical backlash causes and solutions - vf0e

November 23, 2020, 6:39 pm
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Hi

I have a 2000 haas vf0e and I’m trying to gauge info on bringing it back into spec with tolerances

I’ve owned it around 15 months and it’s a good machine but although the electronic back lash is acceptable, between 2 & 5 microns in X & Y, the mechanical slop Is quite bad!

My cause for concern is recently is started to wonder off of its datum when I set say g54 x0 y0, on a Piece in a Collet block then run 8 parts for example, if I then check the g54 with a dial indicator and gauge pin the g54 is now off in X normally by around 0.02mm or 0.03mm and
In Y about 0.010mm

If I put a dial indicator and mag base on the table and zero off the spindle collar then grab the table to try and move it I can move it approx 50 microns (0.050mm)in Y + & -, and in the X axis I can move it approx 20 microns (0.020mm) in + & -,


I believe anything over 0.005mm is out of spec

Now I know they are old worn machines now but what is the most likely cause for this mechanical slop?

Would it be best to replace both X & Y ball screws nuts and
Thrust bearings? And the oil lube lines whilst I’m in there,

Any idea if the parts are still available? I’m in the UK

Thanks
Marc
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98 original VF/4 - Any experts on why Parms/settings so different on TRT-HTRS

November 25, 2020, 10:33 am
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Not sure where to start on this one? Here goes..

The basics:
98 Haas VF4, OS/BIOS is 9.64 (which I understand is the last/latest release for 9.x?)
Running a TRT 210 (a conjoined HRT310 and HRT210).
Our 4th and 5th are fully operational.

What we are wondering: Rather than put SETTINGS to a TRT210 for 4th/5th - Could we just input the HRT310 and HRT210 for SETTINGS and use the 'faster' settings of the HRT assigned PARAMATERS in the control.

The issues:
Running w/ the Settings of TRT210- The A and B are rather SLOW on the rotation speed for both g-code and handwheel. I mean CRAWL slow. Code and 3+2 programs are painfully slow on the rotations between operations. Grrrr slow.

PARAMATERS: MAX SPEED: Comparting the max speed from HRT to TRT they are 1/3 the value. Why? There must have been a reason for this between HRT and TRT as a trunnion device obviously? Or it was just never advanced in the firmware?

If anyone has a Version 10- Wonder if anyone has some screen shots of the PARMS settings from a TRT210 setting.

We are going to do some careful testing w/ the Settings as a HRT310 A and a HRT210 as B. Unless someone here knows that is a really bad idea... :willy_nilly:

HAPPY THANKSGIVING Everyone here! To all the regulars... Peace and have a great season!
GC and Son.
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Offsets....I have to be doing something wrong

November 26, 2020, 6:08 pm
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If I probe my work piece and change out my probe, for let’s say an end mill, that was previously probed on the ots, shouldn’t the controller automatically change the g54 z to compensate for differing tool length/‘s?

I’m not sure what’s going on bc I noticed when I tried to cut a part with fusion 360 cam, the haas wasn’t cutting to the correct depth in z.
I thought it was fusion until I cleared the code and from the machine re probed a block and did a tool change and it confirmed that it was still not right.

Anyways last night I had it set in cam to cut to .625 or actually .605 and the actual cut was like not even a 1/2” deep but it shows on the haas screen that it’s going down to -.605 past zero but it’s really not.

Any suggestions? I did get an IO and control board lost communication alarm,9924 but it cleared but I don’t think that’s causing the issue. I would be calling haas but they won’t be back open till Monday I belive.
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How do you get your trunion in and out of your vf?

November 27, 2020, 12:07 pm
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I've been using a rolling engine hoist but the wheels don't fit under the sheet metal on the front of the machine so you can't quite get it over the table on a vf3. Thought about making some low profile wheels. Extended the arm on the hoist but that throws the balance off a bit. Looked at the side but haven't tried it yet.
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Blunt Starting Threads

November 27, 2020, 12:13 pm
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I've been having a bit of a play about trying to blunt start at thread in my ST-20. I've used the same threading cycle with a grooving tool just editing the offset and the Z finish position accordingly.

The machine is successfully wiping the thread but the ramp out is slower than I'd like. First try was at the same speed as the threading cycle but I've tried slowing the RPM right down to 100 RPM but the result hasn't changed. The ramp out seems to take approximately 1/3 of a turn of the spindle at both high and low speeds which makes me think that the retract is somehow linked to the threading cycle and not the machines rapid speed.

Does anyone have any suggestions?
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Did haas remove some probing routines from the ngc vps wips?

November 27, 2020, 1:08 pm
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I know I’ve seen videos that haas made showing old terryberry probing to find center and top of work piece in one cycle or routine. Like the probe would touch of in z and then move to the the outside of part and touch off on 4 sides to find perfect center.

I know fusion 360 can do it but I’m not comfortable enough to risk crashing my probe,yet.

So when haas moved on from vqs, which I belive had that exact probe cycle and went to the vps, did they removed some probing routines?

If I’m just not seeing it or it’s something I need to update or download, I’m all ears?

I’ve been asking a lot of questions and you guys have been answering and not giving me any shit so again thanks.
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G47 Engraving Cyrillic Symbols

November 30, 2020, 1:01 am
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Guys, help. Is it possible to engrave cyrillic text with G47? Maybe with other G-Code? My goal is to engrave cyrillic text turned around. I mean like Ambulance. I made an injection mold and my customer want on the part to be engraved (ВРЕМЕ) but “mirrored”. Could you help me? Thanks in advance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Is it possible to add a 2nd coolant pump to a mini mill for extra coolant pressure?

November 30, 2020, 9:13 pm
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There's room for it. Or would it be better to just buy one higher HP pump?
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M19 spindle orientation direction?

December 1, 2020, 3:30 pm
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Is there a way to dictate spindle direction for M19?
or another code to clock the spindle?

I looking to position the spindle at 90, then rotate 90deg to position a handle. I must be able to control the direction of rotation. not spin all the way around to location.

As lame as it sounds, I'm looking to open a butterfly valve, move, hit the close button, then go over and manually open it again many many times. torture test of a prototype.
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ST-10 Main control transformer - DEAD (2018) machine

December 3, 2020, 12:06 pm
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So,

We had one of the control transformers in a 2018 haas st-10 go out (SMOKE EVERYWHERE). I am reluctant to get any replacement parts from haas, as they are expensive, and seemingly do not work or are of terrible quality. I think if you own a HAAS, or many as we do, you understand the quality/customer support train long ago left the station. I am curious if there is any reason NOT to replace this with a simple 240/120v step down control transformer? I pulled the wire looms apart all of our power is 240 and then machine just bridges this to the panel for 240 and pulls off some for the 120. I assume this od multi transformer configuration is to provide either extra power, I am unsure why they don't just use 1... Maybe a load balancing issue?

I assume they use the transformer they do to be able to use both 208 and 240 in the machines.

There also seems to be a thermal overload switch, I have not seen this in other transformers, if someone ahs experience with this i would be interested.

Part number of assembly 32-5826 2900.00 was quote
Part number of transformer 64-1459

Automation direct has what seems like a replacement for 190.00

Hopefully this can help someone else, as well as get me an answer on the thermal overload.
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Haas oil flow metering units

December 4, 2020, 1:38 pm
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Does anybody know what sizes the vf0e uses? I’m guessing the ballscrew nut will be a different size to the linear guide rails

Thanks
Marc
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WIPS OMI relocation

December 6, 2020, 3:58 pm
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Hello, New to the forum. I have a new to me TM3p with WIPS and an HRT160 rotary. The HRT160 is on the right side of the table and the WIPS tool setter is on the left with the OMI mounted on the right. Everything works well as configured.

I want to rotate the tool setter 180 and move it further left to open up more table space. It seems to me that this will require moving the OMI to the left side of the spindle so it can have line of sight to the rotated Tool setter. This all seems straight forward enough... but my question is, will I need to change spindle orientation in the probing macros so the spindle probe will properly communicate with the relocated OMI? Has anyone else here made this change?

Thanks
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To Auger....or triple Auger?....that is the question

December 8, 2020, 9:22 am
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Howdy all,

Hoping for some real world input before finalizing my VF2ss order. I've heard and read some not so great reviews of the single auger chip removal system on the VF2ss. My dealer says he almost never get orders fr the triple auger system and has heard little in the way of probs with the single auger. The conveyor type is not avail on the VF2, but a triple auger system is for about $2900 extra. I've looked around on the interweb and have yet to find any real consensus. Does the triple set up work much better than the single or just a little better? What say ye? Yay or Nay?

Also, there's a $1500 charge for installation here in California. Apparantly it went into affect here a couple years back, but isn't done in every state (according to a pal who got one in NY a year ago). I've added quite a few options and had always heard that one of the best parts of buying a Haas was that they come set it up for free....hearsay I know. Anmy input or hints on negotiating that charge outta there?

Many thanks for any input and Happy Hot Dang Holidays! Stay Safe!
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Haas F1 needs to review its driver selection process...

December 9, 2020, 4:39 am
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And maybe not just go for "Daddy's got bucks" as the main criteria.

One of their new drivers, Nikita Mazepin has stirred up social media controversy with a video he posted of him committing a "bad touch" assault on a female in a car he was being driven in.

Haas condemn F1 driver Nikita Mazepin's 'abhorrent' Instagram video | Formula One | The Guardian

This is on top of literal assaults on other drivers, plenty of bad driving incidents that have included hospitalization, and other foolish postings on social media before this event.

The guy seems to be an A-hole, with a wealthy dad protecting him from consequence.

As a Haas CNC machine owner and purchaser when I worked for others, this doesn't make me happy. It's a bad look to keep this guy, and I'm sure I'm not the only one to think this.

Dump this guy, bring back Magnussen. Or any of a dozen other more worthy young drivers.
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Galvanized way covers on new Haas machines & waste disposal from install?

December 10, 2020, 11:02 am
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Hello,

We received a new Haas VF-2 and whatever was used for corrosion control was left behind by the installation staff, we have no idea what it is or how to dispose of it correctly so we sent it to Haas for disposal.
We are also very disappointed that Haas chose to galvanize components in the work area in the machine, we spent years to determine our coolant, Blaser Cut CF(chlorine free), cannot be used around galvanized materials and upon further research other Blaser Cut users are also experiencing unusual levels of corrosion on these galvanized machines they just do not know what is causing it yet in my humble opinion, it is a slow degradation. Galvanized sheet metal has been around for a long time, not really sure why Haas is currently the only machine tool builder on the planet to use it in a machine tool cutting area?
We think we have a plan to remove the galvanized plating and I am sure that is on us, not really sure how many pennies Haas saved using galvanized components, thanks!

Have a great day!



PS
(this note(signed) was in the box with the pound of green goop we sent to MTS today, properly secured in a plastic bag.)

Sorry. it is actually Blaser Cut 2000CF
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Drill Retraction too high with G83 on Haas after Fusion 360 generated program

December 10, 2020, 12:39 pm
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Hi All. I am new to using the Haas Mini Mill 2 and Fusion 360
Has anyone had this problem or know how to resolve it?

I Created a drilling program using Fusion 360 CAM to try and centre drill 6 Holes 3mm deep from Z0 (Top of workpiece).
Within Fusion I think I have set my Heights correctly and from what I can see the NC code generated within the program looks OK and the graphic simulation looks OK.
When I run the program the Drill retracts up to around Z 14.mm before starting to feed down to Z0 and below at feed rate for the next 0.5mm incremental peck!
I think I am correct in saying that it shouldn't go higher than Z2. as per the previous line to the Canned cycle.

I cant see anything in the program that instructs it to do this and I have checked setting 52 to make sure that's OK. I have tried setting 52 at 0.00 and 0.1mm but the drill still retracts to Z14.

Am I missing a machine parameter that I need to adjust or something?

Click image for larger version.  Name: drill.jpg  Views: 11  Size: 16.5 KB  ID: 307170

Generated program is below
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O10005
(Using high feed G1 F5000. instead of G0.)
(T1 D=10. CR=0. TAPER=118deg - ZMIN=-3. - drill)
N10 G90 G94 G17
N15 G21
N20 G53 G0 Z0.

(09129)
N25 T1 M6
(Adjust speeds/ feeds to suit)
N30 S1200 M3
N35 G54
N40 M8
N45 G0 X-32.72 Y0.
N50 G43 Z4. H1
N55 G0 Z2.
N60 G98 G83 X-32.72 Y0. Z-3. R2. Q0.5 F50.
N65 X-21.12
N70 X-9.04
N75 X3.04
N80 X15.43
N85 X30.27
N90 G80
N95 G0 Z4.

N100 M5
N105 M9
N110 G53 G0 Z0.
N115 X0.
N120 G53 G0 Y0.
N125 M30

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Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version.  Name: drill.jpg  Views: N/A  Size: 16.5 KB  ID: 307170  
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Haas umbrella toolchanger

December 12, 2020, 3:16 pm
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I want to pull the motor for the shuttle in/out on the umbrella. How do I get that rascal out of there? Vfe 1997
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Haas Mini Mill Fines in coolant - Filter screen?

December 16, 2020, 6:41 am
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We do alot of mixed materials in our mini mill... cast iron, bronze, stainless, alloy Steels etc. We are getting a ton of fines built up under the chip screen from running the bronze and cast iron. We obviously dont use coolant for the cast iron and we try to pick out, clean & vacuum the cast iron chips before running the next job but the small stuff always finds a way into the coolant. Has anyone come up with a filter/screen solution to prevent this from happening as much? We use a chip trapper to filer the coolant at least once a month but the amount of build up under the factory chip screen we usually have to scrap out by hand because there is so much. Should note we do not have the chip auger option on this machine. Basically we are trying to figure this out because we are switching coolant brands soon from hangstefers s-500 as it is not working well in the high pressure coolant pump (foams & seperates). Also the NexGen skimmer on the machine clogs up easily with the fines in the coolant.
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4th axis setup

December 17, 2020, 5:47 am
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How do you set the location, xyz of 4th axis rotary table? The manual from what I’ve read tends more to 5 axis and using the dwo tcpc options, that I don’t have,to setup. Also there is nothing on the internet or on haas website that I’ve seen that clearly talks about the 4th alone. Everything I see regard a tilting 4th axis and will have a picture of a 5 axis trunnion.

I went into setting but like a lot of things on cnc controllers, the same page acts differently depending on what mode your in and I thought i screwed up bad last night when I lost rotary zero but I found the file and reloaded it.but, That froze the hole machine up till I figured out what I did and fixed it but, I don’t see anything about 4th only rotary setup. The center of rotation,z,im sure is obvious but, what do I need to do so that when I run a part it knows exactly where it is on the table? just like if You had probed a corner of a vise.
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St-10 or TL-1?

December 17, 2020, 8:12 pm
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I don't know much about lathes and I'm a mill shop but I don't want turn customers away and have them going to shop around and lose them altogether so I'm considering a TL-1. After pricing out a TL-1 with options its so close to a bare bones ST-10 which offers way more. Initially I just need stuff for short run of parts and the TL-1 would get the job done but the ST-10 seems like it would open the door for a lot more future opportunity even though its more than I really want to spend now especially since its not the core of my business. I could get a fairly bare bones Tl-1 with maybe just the tail stock but it just feels like lots of money for something that needs me to sit there and change tools. Any thoughts or advise? With life as it is now I cant afford to lose customers.
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